Jay & Miles X-Plain the X-Men

85 – Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts, Part 9: Complex Continuity, with Paul O’Brien and Kieran Shiach

Art by James Stokoe
Art by James Stokoe

In which Miles finally makes it to Battlepod; we delve into our favorite continuity snarls for the benefit of the Beyonder; Kang is everyone; we’re really grateful that the D.C. Multiverse is out of our usual scope; someone gets a new costume; and the Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts reaches its shocking conclusion!

Featuring Paul O’Brien of House to Astonish and Kieran Shiach of Journey Into Misery; with Greg Rucka as the voice of the Beyonder!


  • Kang
  • The Third Summers Brother
  • The D.C. Multiverse
  • Cable

This is the final episode of the Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts, a nine-part crossover event featuring the bravest and boldest of comics podcasts. You can find a list of the previous #SCOIP episodes–and where to jump into participating podcasts–on our blog!

ART CHALLENGE: Miles apparently came home from Secret Convergence with a snazzy new costume that may or may not be a hostile alien symbiote! What does it look like?

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  1. Paul’s treatise on Kang reminded me that AVENGERS FOREVER was supposed to streamline all of Kang’s history.

    That, uh . . .fair play to Busiek for trying, but the Alexander that can untie that knot ain’t been found.

    But it got rid of THE CROSSING, and for that is a wonderful thing indeed.

    1. What would make his beard more impressive is the techno-organic virus. Magus has very impressive facial hair.

  2. Well this makes me happy. I wondered if perhaps an episode recorded so far in advance might perhaps drop early, and it has: early afternoon Sydney time rather than mid-evening.

    So you will be pleased to know that your ploy worked at least somewhat. I have delved through the back issue bins for samples of all of the podcasts involved, and have indeed found some that I will probably continue listening to.

    Also: I agree that we need a Secret Wars: The Moon miniseries. Fanfic needs to be written about this. Also: I am wondering if I have enough finances to up my patreon donations and get an on-air acknowledgement from Mile’s symbiot costume.

    1. Before you do, you should know that we generally don’t do specific character requests–it’s angry narrator or supervillain; and the latter depends on what we’re covering that episode or what Miles feels like writing that day. =)

      1. I’m embarassed to realise I haven’t been supporting you on Patreon when I thought I had been. And now I realise I’ll have to support you, not through the early new Mutants issues you’ve been covering, where I might have had a warm glow at contributing to support it, but for the post #60, slouching towards X-Force issues… Sigh… Oh well, I’ve come this far..

  3. I immediately assumed that whatever Miles’ new costume looks like, it includes an over-layer of a ragged t-shirt proclaiming MY PIKACHU IS X-TREME.

    Great fun episode. 🙂

  4. I haven’t listened to the episode yet, but I just got up, and there were two things I had to say.

    First, a question. When I was lying in bed trying to stay asleep even though I had to get up to pee, I started thinking about Carol Danvers. Can she still go all Binary with the flamey head and everything? If so, why doesn’t she do that all the time? If not, why not?

    Second, a comment. Last night, Jay, I dreamt about you (not creepy; please read on). I was dreaming that Marvel offered you a job as “Assistant Editor for Continuity” in the X-Office, as well as the job editing X-Men ’92 and Extraordinary X-Men. So don’t be surprised if that phone call from Marvel IS coming in the future. (Note: my dreams have never had predictive power in the past, so they probably won’t start now.)

    1. AFAIK Carol can indeed still access her Binary form, but she needs to absorb an incredible amount of energy to get the whole flaming hair/red skin look.

      She always retains the energy absorption powers and uses it to power her own energy blasts, but normally doing so doesn’t make her go into full-on Binary mode, which will fade again as she powers down.

      1. Yeah, she became binary during Infinity when she was next to a black hole, iirc, or some other cosmic source of incredible power.

    2. According to the wiki (yes, yes, grain of salt) a storyline called “Operation: Galactic Storm” cut her connection to the power source she used as Binary and thus depowered her somewhat. She retained energy manipulation powers, but to a lesser degree. So maybe she can still go all flamey, bu it’s probably harder without some additional force driving it?

      I miss the heck out of that look for her though. I like the new threads, but the Binary outfit was pretty stellar (pun intended).

      1. A-ha! I knew I’d seen it somewhere recently. In The Ultimates #1. she does “go Bimary” when she absorbs the energy output of the Blue Marvel. She gets the fiery hair and the glowy eyes, but keeps her human skin tone, and the effect doesn’t last too long (and given the putput of the Blue Marvel it means it would take a LOT for the effect to be long term.

  5. Just finished the episode (and of course the whole crossover) and this was awesome!

    I did have a quick laugh when Jay mentions that Secret Wars was “just wrapping up” (or something to that effect). Love that optimism 🙂 I know this was recorded some time ago, and I’m almost wondering if, when this was recorded, Secret Wars was still an 8-issue miniseries or whether they’d announced issue 9.

    Quick programming question for our esteemed hosts: for your Fall of the Mutants coverage, what order will you be doing them in? Thanks!

  6. Still near the beginning of the episode, but for me, Paul O’Brien on Rachel and Miles is like a wonderful dream I never had come true.

    1. Right there with you. Paul’s X-Axis stuff was part of what inspired the podcast, and it was really fantastic to get to record with him.

  7. Ok, I’ve got to the middle of Kang history and had to give up. My head hurts. I’ll try to listen the rest after, but I believe that this will be the hardest podcast ever.

    1. I have read about 8 DC Universe comics in my life, so I actually found the part where Kieran was explaining the DC Multiverse to be spectacularly difficult to follow, whereas the Kang stuff was all in my wheelhouse and I found it perfectly comprehensible.

    2. The whole Kang discussion is so absurd and ridiculous, and then Paul drops, “Kang has 23 sons, all of whom are named Marcus.”

      That’s a strong contender for the hardest I’ve ever laughed at the podcast.

  8. Ok, I give up. I try to read Marvel Wikia before resume the podcast, but I just CAN’T FOLLOW KANG!! I thought that I was a big shot for understanding the Phoenix Saga or Matrix Trilogy, but this is just ridiculous! Why don’t Kang just explain his life history to people to defeat them? He could finally conquer the world! It’s the ultimate superpower!

  9. I listened to the whole Crossover. It was awesome, specially the episode involving you guys, and Elle Collins. I even started listening to Journey Into Misery and Less than Life!
    Anyway, I little thing: At first I was confused by Parallel Reed Richardss not having a father because of Kang, because I know at least one Parallel Reed Richards who does have a father: Ultimate Reed Richards (not that it made him any good). But then I checked, Ultimate Reed Richards father is *Gary* Richards, not Nathaniel Richards, so everything wrong with Ultimate Reed is all Inmortus’s fault somehow

  10. Given the discussion on Superboy Prime and punching holes in reality, I’d just like to remind everyone that Miss America Chavez possesses the power to both produce and kick through star-shaped walls between universes.

    As always, America Chavez is the best.

    1. This occurred to me as well. Was whoever created America Chavez intentionally referencing Superboy’s reality-punching when they gave her a similar power, or is it coincidental? Does anyone know?

      I really enjoyed the first issue of the new Ultimates with America in it (plus two Captains Marvel!).

  11. I wasn’t going to say this because I felt it was too tangential, but then I remembered that you guys love tangents! So here goes.

    This is branching off of what Rachel said about finding a real-life person named Dr. Doom. I work for a hospital in Ontario, Canada (you wouldn’t believe how many Wendigo cases we see a month) and they have 2 doctors with very interesting and supervillain-y names.

    First is Dr. Payne; ironically, he works in the Pain Clinic. Second is Dr. Death. Its pronounced deeth, but he just goes by Dr. D because nobody wants to be known as Dr. Death, well expect for maybe someone with supervillain aspirations.

  12. Yes! The Cable Conundrum! Huge fan here, so I love positive reviews of the character, sparse though they may be. But wait, I know we all call him Nathan Christopher, but wasn’t he born Christopher Charles? After his grandfather & Prof X? I though in the Inferno reveal Maddy started calling him Nathan after a bully in the orphange (who turned out to be Sinister) just to screw with Scott’s head and it stuck. Or did she put Nathan on the birth certificate originally without Scott knowing? If so I just get this great visual of Scott all proud telling the nurse “We’re naming him after my father!” meanwhile Maddy’s behind him, newborn in her arms, frowning and shaking her head at the nurse, mouthing the word “no…”

    I did always figure the Inferno name change was so we wouldn’t, as readers at the time, make the Summers baby/Cable connection too soon.

    1. IIRC it took them AGES to ever mention the babies name, and I mean over a year or something, but I might be misremembering.

        1. Is it another baby because I’d swear I’d seen Jubilee comment that she had no idea as to the baby’s name because they were treating it like it was a big secret.

          Oh well, such are the pitfalls of old age…

      1. No, no, the first issue after the birth there’s this one page panel that says that his name is Nathan Christopher Charles Summers. The funny part is thar Christopher is Scott’s father, Charles is his stepfather (because if you take a 14-year old orphan and take care of him till he become an adult, you’re his father, no matter how much danger room sequences you force him to do) and Nathan is… Madeline Pryor’s father. Well, kind of. She was a clone, he was a mad scientist. X-MEN!!

    2. His name has always been Nathan Christoper Charles; he’s called Christopher or Chris until he gets pulled forward in time. Either Scott or Maddy describes him very early on as having been named after “both our fathers.”

      1. Any narrative reason for naming him Nate but calling him Chris? Other than Scott not wanting to recall the whole mess every time he talks to his son?

  13. Oh, are we looking for a real Doctor Doom? ’cause my high school had a history teacher named Mr. Doom, and he said that yes, he had a brother who was a doctor.

    I ran around his room one day labeling everything: the Chalk Board of Doom, the Desk of Doom, the Grade Book of Doom. He was a pretty good guy, turns out.

  14. Hey R&M,

    Can’t thank you guys enough for the Secret Convergence! It was awesome to have so many learned fans talking comics. It also really amped my podcast feed! I’ve added almost all of the podcasts in the cross over to my feed and am excitedly pouring over the back issues.

    I’m also ordering Speed Racer the movie based on Rachel’s conversation with Elle Collins, I can’t believe it’s as good as you say, but I look forward to being proven wrong.

    PS. Minor note, What’s your preferred shorthand J.Rachel, should we keep with Rachel? Just go with J? always use both? Happy to use either your comfortable with.

  15. Any chance you guys can get Paul to come back for an episode with just him so that you can dig into X-topics past, present and future? I’d really love to hear him talk about The X-Axis in its’ heyday, what’s gotten him to make peace with not being as obsessive as he used to be about the X-Men and just about anything else you could think to ask him.

  16. Kang’s complex continuity (pardon the alliteration) is the reason why Marvel apparently can’t use Kang in the movies even though he’s so clearly associated with the Avengers). I also wish Miles said WHAAAAT!!! after Kang is Iron Lad.

    That Fabian Nicieza quote may be one of my favorite, most Marvel quotes ever. It sums up complicated continuity with different creators. With Keiran’s description of the DC multiverse, I feel like Jay’s “Huh” sums up it perfectly.

    I will say, if Jay wants to take a shot of Hickman and continuity, I’d love to here it.

    Overall, I loved this whole crossover. Thanks to everyone for participating.

  17. The Nu52 wasn’t really a hard reboot, since the Green Lantern books basically continued on without any changes

  18. This is more of a villianization (word?) of my own hearing, but I feel like this episode should have been offered with closed captioning.

  19. Wasn’t Tyler/Genesis also Mr. Tolliver, the super-duper mysterious guy in the shadow who somehow or another was involved in super-duper mysterious plotting? I think he factored into some of the earliest Deadpool stories, among other things.

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